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 Etude pour l'evolution du reglement F3K

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ced_toulouse
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Nombre de messages : 1371
Localisation : toulouse
Date d'inscription : 21/01/2008

MessageSujet: Etude pour l'evolution du reglement F3K   Lun 8 Oct 2012 - 9:59

bonjour,

je vous mets en vrac les propositions de modif de reglement discuté pendant le CdE avec les chef d'equipe. il y a 17 propositions: j'aimerai avoir votre avis, pour soutenir ou combattre ces propositions, et la cas echeants faire d'autres proposition s'il vous semble manquer qqch.

merci et bonne lecture:

PS: merci de ne pas partir en live, sinon je supprimerai le post: le but est de travailler de maniere constructive


1st TB F3K proposal
Present wording

5.7.2.1. Specifications
Model gliders are gliders with the following limitations:
Wingspan maximum 1500 mm
Weight maximum 600 g
Radius of the nose must be a minimum of 5 mm in all orientations. (See F3B nose definition for measurement technique.)
The model glider must be launched by hand and is controlled by radio equipment acting on an unlimited number of surfaces.
The use of gyros and variometers onboard the model glider is not allowed.
The model glider may be equipped with holes, pegs or reinforcements, which allow a better grip of the model glider by hand. The pegs must be stiff and an integral part of the model glider within the half-span of the wing, and be neither extendable nor retractable. Devices, which do not remain a part of the model glider during and after the launch, are not allowed.


Proposed wording

5.7.2.1. Specifications
Model gliders are gliders with the following limitations:
Wingspan maximum 1500 mm
Weight maximum 600 g
Radius of the nose must be a minimum of 5 mm in all orientations. (See F3B nose definition for measurement technique.)
The model glider must be launched by hand and is controlled by radio equipment acting on an unlimited number of surfaces.
The use of gyros and variometers onboard the model glider is not allowed.
Any technological device used to aide in supplying data of the air’s condition or direct feedback of the model’s flight status is prohibited during the flight. These devices include any transmission or receiving devices not used to directly control the model aircraft (telephones, walkie-talkies, telemetry of airspeed and altitude etc.), temperature detecting devices (thermal imaging cameras, thermometers etc), optical aids (such as binoculars, telescopes etc.), and distance/altitude measuring devices (GPS, laser range finders etc.). Telemetry of signal strength at the aircraft receiver and state of the receiver battery is permitted. Use of corrective eyeglasses and sunglasses are permitted. If an infringement of this rule occurs, the pilot will be disqualified from the contest.
The model glider may be equipped with holes, pegs or reinforcements, which allow a better grip of the model glider by hand. The pegs must be stiff and an integral part of the model glider within the half-span of the wing, and be neither extendable nor retractable. Devices, which do not remain a part of the model glider during and after the launch, are not allowed.


Note: The new text is identical with F3B as adapted in 2012

F3K.2
2nd TB F3K proposal
Present wording

5.7.2.3. Change of model glider
Each competitor is allowed to use five model gliders in the contest. It is permissible to change parts between these five model gliders. The competitor may change his model gliders at any time as long as they conform to the specifications and are operated on the assigned frequency. The organiser has to mark the five model gliders and all interchangeable parts of each of the five model gliders. All spare model gliders must stay outside the start and landing field and only one model is permissible in the start and landing field to score a valid flight time. The previous model must be removed before a replacement model may be launched.



Proposed wording

5.7.2.3. Change of model glider
Each competitor is allowed to use five model gliders in the contest. It is permissible to change parts between these five model gliders. The competitor may change his model gliders at any time as long as they conform to the specifications and are operated on the assigned frequency. The organiser has to mark the five model gliders and all interchangeable parts of each of the five model gliders. All spare model gliders must stay outside the start and landing field and only one model is permissible in the start and landing field to score a valid flight time. The previous model must be removed before a replacement model may be launched.All spare model gliders must stay outside the start and landing area in a spare model area and only one model is permissible in the start and landing area to score a valid flight time. A model glider that has been in the start and landing area during the preparation time and working time must be placed in the same spare model area as the model that will be used next.

Note: The text as written by Mike Fantham

MF revised proposed wording:

5.7.2.3. Change of model glider
Each competitor is allowed to use five model gliders in the contest. It is permissible to change parts between these five model gliders. The competitor may change his model gliders at any time as long as they conform to the specifications and are operated on the assigned frequency. The organiser has to mark the five model gliders and all interchangeable parts of each of the five model gliders.

Each competitor may only have one model glider in the start and landing field at any moment during the working time. Only the model gliders that are in the spare model area or in the start and landing field at the start of the working time may be used during the working time. To change model gliders, the ‘old’ one must be placed in the same spare model area as the ‘new’ one, before the ‘new’ one is taken out.


Reason:
Comments received suggested that we clarify that only one model can be in the box at any one time and that only spare models from the spare model area may be used. Remember also 5.7.1.2 – “…The helper is the only person allowed to help the competitor when he is on the start and landing field…” This prevents others bringing models to the spare model area or touching models that are in there during the working time.

F3K.3

3rd TB F3K proposal
Present wording

5.7.3.2. Start and landing field
The organiser must define the start and landing field before the start of the contest. Within the start and landing field each competitor must have adequate space to conduct his launches and landings, at least 30 metres distance to any person in the start direction. The organiser should consider about 900 m² per competitor, (square of 30 m x 30 m).
All launches and landings must happen within this area. The border line defining the start and landing field is part of the start and landing field. Any launch or landing outside this area is scored zero for the flight.
Competitors may leave the start-and-landing field while flying their model glider. For starting their model glider and in order to achieve a valid landing (see 5.7.6.2) the competitor must be inside the start and landing field.


Proposed wording

5.7.3.2. Start and landing field
The organiser must define the start and landing field before the start of the contest. Within the start and landing field each competitor must have adequate space to conduct his launches and landings, at least 30 metres distance to any person in the start direction. The organiser should consider about 900 m² per competitor, (square of 30 m x 30 m).
All launches and landings must happen within this area. The border line defining the start and landing field is part of the start and landing field. Any launch or landing outside this area is scored zero for the flight.
Competitors may leave the start-and-landing field while flying their model glider. For starting their model glider and in order to achieve a valid landing (see 5.7.6.2) the competitor must be inside the start and landing field.
Four areas must be defined outside but within 2 meters of the start and landing field for the storage and changing of spare models. About 2-3 square meters must be available for each competitor in a group in each area. For a rectangular start and landing field the spare model areas must be placed at the mid points of the sides.

Note: The text as written by Mike Fantham
MF revised proposed wording:
5.7.3.2. Start and landing field

The organiser must define the start and landing field before the start of the contest. Within the start and landing field each competitor must have adequate space to conduct his launches and landings, at least 30 metres distance to any person in the start direction. The organiser should consider about 900 m² per competitor, (square of 30 m x 30 m). The border line defining the start and landing field is part of the start and landing field.
Competitors may leave the start-and-landing field while flying their model glider. For starting their model glider and in order to achieve a valid landing (see 5.7.6.2) the competitor must be inside the start and landing field.
Four areas must be defined outside but within 2 meters of the start and landing field for the storage and changing of spare models. About 4 square meters must be available for each competitor in a group in each area. For a rectangular start and landing field the spare model areas must be placed at the mid points of the sides. If the start and landing field is not a rectangle, the spare model areas should be distributed evenly around the perimeter.

Reason:
Moved, “The border line defining the start and landing field is part of the start and landing field.” to the first paragraph because it’s part of the definition. (MF idea)
The middle paragraph lets competitors leave the box during the flight. See F3K.9 for proposal to keep the competitor in the box. Only the middle paragraph is different to the version here.
Last paragraph has 4m2 per competitor not 2-3m2. I had comments that more space should be allowed.

F3K.4

4th TB F3K proposal

Present wording

5.7.4.3. Safety area
The organiser may define safety areas. The organiser must ensure that the safety areas are permanently controlled by well-trained personnel. A competitor will receive a penalty of 100 points, if:
(a) His model glider lands inside the safety area or touches any ground based object like eg car or building,
(b) The model glider flies below 3 metres over the safety area (measured from the ground).


Proposed wording

5.7.4.3. Safety area
The organiser may define safety areas. The organiser must ensure that the safety areas are permanently controlled by well-trained personnel. A competitor will receive a penalty of 100 points, if:
(a) His model glider lands inside the safety area or touches any ground based object like eg car or building,
(b) The model glider flies below 3 metres over the safety area (measured from the ground).
a) Contact with an object within the defined safety area will be penalised by deduction of 300 points from the competitor’s final score.
b) Contact with a person within the defined safety area will be penalised by deduction of 1000 points from the competitor’s final score.
c) Contact with a person anywhere outside the defined safety area will be penalised by deduction of 100 points from the competitor’s final score.
d) For each attempt only one penalty can be given, If a person and at the same attempt an object is touched the 1000 points penalty is applied.
e) Penalties shall be listed on the score sheet of the round in which the infringement(s) occurred.


Note: The new text is brought from F3J, modified accordingly. Also the penalty is set to the same level.


MF revised proposed wording:
5.7.4.3. Safety area
The organiser may define safety areas. The organiser must ensure that the safety areas are controlled by well-trained personnel.
a) Contact with an object or person within the defined safety area will be penalised by deduction of 100 points from the competitor’s final score.
b) If more than one person or object is contacted in the same incident, only one penalty applies.
c) Penalties shall be listed on the score sheet of the round in which the infringement(s) occurred.


Reason
Comments received suggested:
Penalties too high. 300 points would be instant disqualification – see 5.7.10.1
No need for parity with F3J
My thoughts:
Contact with a person outside the safety area is already covered by 5.7.4.1 – see F3K.10
The word, “permanently”, removed from, “permanently controlled”, – not practical and only required while competition is running.

F3K.5

5th TB F3K proposal

New rule

Proposed wording

5.7.8. Re-flights
The competitor is entitled to a new working time if his attempt has not been judged by the official time-keepers.
The new working time is to be granted to the competitor according to the following order of priorities:
1. in following group;
2. if this is not achievable, then in a new group of several (minimum 4) re-flyers. New group of re-flyers can be completed by other competitors selected by random draw to the number of 4. If the frequency or team membership of the drawn competitor does not fit or the competitor will not fly, the draw is repeated;
3. if this is also not achievable, then with his original group at the end of the ongoing round. In priority-case 2 and 3, the better of the two results of the original flight and the re-flight will be the official score, except for the competitors who are allocated the new attempt. For those the result of the re-flight is the official score. A competitor of this group who was not allocated the new attempt will not be entitled to another working time in case of time-keepers failure.


Notes: 1) The text is brought from F3J, modified accordingly.
2) Renumber the following paragraphs



F3K.6

6th TB F3K proposal
Present wording

5.7.10.1. Final score
The final score is the sum of normalised scores of rounds minus penalty points.
If 5 or more rounds are flown then the lowest score is dropped.
If 9 or more rounds are flown then the lowest two scores are dropped.
If 14 or more rounds are flown then the lowest 3 scores are dropped.
If 19 or more rounds are flown then the lowest 4 scores are dropped.
If 24 or more rounds are flown then the lowest 5 scores are dropped.
Penalty points must be shown in the results list with an indication of the round in which they were levied. The penalty points are retained even if the score of the round in which the offence occurred is dropped.
If a competitor collects more than 300 penalty points, he will be disqualified from the contest.

Proposed wording

5.7.10.1. Final score
The final score is the sum of normalised scores of rounds minus penalty points.
If 5 or more rounds are flown then the lowest score is dropped.
If 9 or more rounds are flown then the lowest two scores are dropped.
If 14 or more rounds are flown then the lowest 3 scores are dropped.
If 19 or more rounds are flown then the lowest 4 scores are dropped.
If 24 or more rounds are flown then the lowest 5 scores are dropped.
Penalty points must be shown in the results list with an indication of the round in which they were levied. The penalty points are retained even if the score of the round in which the offence occurred is dropped.
If a competitor collects more than 300 penalty points, he will be disqualified from the contest.

Note: After inserting new paragraph 5.7.8 the heading should be “5.7.11.1. Final score”

F3K.7

7th TB F3K proposal

Present wording

5.7.10.3. Fly-off
The organiser may announce a fly-off prior at the beginning of the event.
The fly-off should consist of at least 3 rounds with a maximum of 6 rounds. If 5 or 6 rounds are flown, the lowest score is dropped.
The maximum number of competitors in a fly-off is limited to 12. The minimum number of competitors in a fly-off should be 10-15 % of the total number of competitors.
A junior fly-off may be held with the maximum number of competitors being 2/3 of the seniors flyoff.
A separate junior fly-off is not mandatory.
If a fly-off is flown, the points of the previous rounds are not considered.


Proposed wording

5.7.10.3. Fly-off
The organiser may announce a fly-off prior at the beginning of the event. For World and Continental Championships the fly-off is mandatory.
The fly-off should consist of at least 3 rounds with a maximum of 6 rounds. If 5 or 6 rounds are flown, the lowest score is dropped.
The maximum number of competitors in a fly-off is limited to 12. The minimum number of competitors in a fly-off should be 10-15 % of the total number of competitors.
A junior fly-off may be held with the maximum number of competitors being 2/3 of the seniors flyoff.
A separate junior fly-off is not mandatory.
If a fly-off is flown, the points of the previous rounds are not considered.

Note: After inserting new paragraph 5.7.8 the heading should be “5.7.11.3. Fly-off”

F3K.8

8th TB F3K proposal
Present wording

5.7.1.3. Start Helper
Disabled persons may ask for assistance at launching and retrieving (catching) their model glider. This start helper has to be different in every round, meaning that every start helper can only be used once. The competitor has to touch the start helper before each launch of the model glider.
During a competition with only one class, competitors of less than 1.5 metres height may be assisted for launching and/or catching.


Proposed wording

5.7.1.3. Start Helper
Disabled persons may ask for assistance at launching and retrieving (catching) their model glider. This start helper has to be different in every round, meaning that every start helper can only be used once. The competitor has to touch the start helper before each launch of the model glider.
During a competition with only one class, competitors of less than 1.5 metres height may be assisted for launching and/or catching.

F3K.9

Present wording:

5.7.3.2. Start and landing field
The organiser must define the start and landing field before the start of the contest. Within the start and landing field each competitor must have adequate space to conduct his launches and landings, at least 30 metres distance to any person in the start direction. The organiser should consider about 900 m² per competitor, (square of 30 m x 30 m).
All launches and landings must happen within this area. The border line defining the start and landing field is part of the start and landing field. Any launch or landing outside this area is scored zero for the flight.
Competitors may leave the start-and-landing field while flying their model glider. For starting their model glider and in order to achieve a valid landing (see 5.7.6.2) the competitor must be inside the start and landing field.

Proposed wording:

5.7.3.2. Start and landing field
The organiser must define the start and landing field before the start of the contest. Within the start and landing field each competitor must have adequate space to conduct his launches and landings, at least 30 metres distance to any person in the start direction. The organiser should consider about 900 m² per competitor, (square of 30 m x 30 m). The border line defining the start and landing field is part of the start and landing field.
For starting their model glider, during the flight and in order to achieve a valid landing (see 5.7.6.2) the competitor must remain inside the start and landing field. If a competitor leaves the start-and-landing field during the flight, the score for that flight is zero.
Four areas must be defined outside but within 2 meters of the start and landing field for the storage and changing of spare models. About 4 square meters must be available for each competitor in a group in each area. For a rectangular start and landing field the spare model areas must be placed at the mid points of the sides. If the start and landing field is not a rectangle, the spare model areas should be distributed evenly around the perimeter.


Problem:
Follows from ref 2012.1
Pilots can leave the box and move closer to the model – this can help to exploit small areas of slope lift far from the box.
Solution:
Pilots to remain in the box to achieve a valid flight.
Comment:
If a pilot is sure he will land out, he can leave the box to retrieve and take a zero. If he thinks he might land out, he will need to wait until he is sure. The helper may leave the box to retrieve the model if preferred.
Spare model area definition added as last paragraph.
See also F3K.3 (MF version of TB words) above. Only the middle paragraph is different to the version here.  

F3K.10

Present wording:

5.7.4.1. Contact with person
In order to guarantee the highest level of safety, any contact between a flying model glider and any other person (except the competitor or start helper) either in or outside the start and landing field has to be avoided. If such contact happens during either the working or preparation time, the competitor will receive a penalty of 100 points on the total score. In addition, if the contact happens during the working time at the launch of the model glider, this will result in a zero score for the whole round.

Proposed wording:

5.7.4.1. Contact with person
In order to guarantee the highest level of safety, any contact between a moving model glider and any other person (except the competitor or start helper) either inside or outside the start and landing field has to be avoided. This includes contact that happens while the glider is flying or while the glider is being handled by the competitor (or start helper) between landing and launching.
If such contact happens during the preparation time, the working time or the landing window, the competitor will receive a penalty of 100 points on the total score. In addition, if the contact happens at the launch of the model glider, during the preparation time or the working time, this will result in a zero score for the whole round.


Problems:
Follows from 2012.2 and 2012.4
1 Contact during landing window not covered and launching during preparation time not covered.
2 Contact while pilot is touching the model, including between catching/picking up and release, is not covered
Solutions:
1 Add landing window to time specified for the 100 point penalty (and preparation time to the zero score penalty part.)
2 Words changed to ‘moving model glider’ and further clarified to cover contact while pilot is touching the model

F3K.11

Proposed new rule:

5.7.4.5. Safety Helmets
During flying, all persons inside or within 5 metres of the boundary of the start and landing field must wear a safety helmet, with a fastened chinstrap, strong enough to withstand the impact of an F3K model aircraft in any phase of its flight.


Problem:
Follows from 2012.3
It is possible that someone could be injured by a model glider


Solution:
Safety Helmets. Words based on F2 rules.

Comment:
Helmets are not currently banned so are effectively optional at the moment. 

F3K.12

Present wording:

5.7.11.5. Task E (Poker - variable target time)
Before the first launch, each competitor announces a target time to the official timekeeper. He can perform an unlimited number of launches to reach or exceed, this time. If the target is reached or exceeded, then the target time is credited and the competitor can announce the next target time, which may be lower, equal or higher, before he releases the model glider during the launch. If the target time is not reached, the announced target flight time can not be changed. The competitor may try to reach the announced target flight time until the end of the working time. Towards the end of the working time, the competitor must still announce a real time specified in minutes and/or seconds. Calling only "until the end of the working time" is not permitted.
The announcement may be repeated 5 times. The 5 flights with achieved targets are scored. The achieved target times are added together.
This task may be included in the competition program only if the organiser provides a sufficient number of official timekeepers, so that each competitor in the round is accompanied by one official timekeeper.
Working time is 10 minutes.
Example: Announced time Flight time Scored time
45 s 1st flight 46 s 45 s
50 s 1st flight 48 s 0 s
2nd flight 52 s 50 s
47 s 1st flight 49 s 47 s
60 s 1st flight 57 s 0 s
2nd flight 63 s 60 s
60 s 1st flight 65 s 60 s
Total score is 262 s





Proposed wording:

5.7.11.5. Task E (Poker - variable target time)
Before the first launch, each competitor announces a target time to the official timekeeper. The maximum target time that can be announced is 9 minutes and 58 seconds.
The competitor can perform an unlimited number of launches to reach or exceed, this time. If the target is reached or exceeded, then the target time is credited and the competitor can announce the next target time, which may be lower, equal or higher, before he releases the model glider during the launch. If the target time is not reached, the announced target flight time can not be changed. The competitor may try to reach the announced target flight time until the end of the working time. Towards the end of the working time, the competitor must still announce a real time specified in minutes and/or seconds. Calling only "until the end of the working time" is not permitted.
The announcement may be repeated up to 5 times. The flights with achieved targets are scored. The achieved target times are added together.
This task may be included in the competition program only if the organiser provides a sufficient number of official timekeepers, so that each competitor in the round is accompanied by one official timekeeper.
Working time is 10 minutes.
Example: Announced time Flight time Scored time
45 s 1st flight 46 s 45 s
50 s 1st flight 48 s 0 s
2nd flight 52 s 50 s
47 s 1st flight 49 s 47 s
60 s 1st flight 57 s 0 s
2nd flight 63 s 60 s
60 s 1st flight 65 s 60 s
Total score is 262 s



Problem:
Follows from 2012.6
A flight of 9:59 may be theoretically possible but it depends too much on the skill of the timekeeper to judge the moment of launch accurately and the reaction times to operate the stopwatch at the start of the flight and the landing. A genuine 9:59 might be scored as 9:58.
Solution:
Make the maximum nomination 9:58 to remove doubt.
Clarification:
“The 5 flights with achieved targets are scored”, changed to,” The flights with achieved targets are scored”, because there may be less than 5 flights.  


F3K.13

Present wording:

5.7.9.3. Landing window
No points are deducted for flying over the maximum flight time or past the end of the working time. Immediately after the end of the working time, or after each attempt for the task “all-up-last-down”, the 30 seconds landing window will begin. Any model gliders still airborne must now land. If a model glider lands later, then that flight will be scored with 0 points.
The organiser should announce the last ten seconds of the landing window by counting down.

Proposed wording:

5.7.9.3. Landing window
No points are deducted for flying over the maximum flight time or past the end of the working time. For all Tasks except Task C, a 30 seconds landing window will begin at the end of the working time. For Task C (All up, last down, seconds) the landing window will end 3:33 after the start signal. Any model gliders still airborne must land before the end of the landing window. If a model glider lands later, then that flight will score zero.
The organiser should announce the last ten seconds of the landing window by counting down.

Problem:
Follows from 2012.6
There is no working time for “all up last down” and a 3 second launch window is available. With a signal 3:30 after the launch signal, often used now, late launchers will have less than 30 seconds landing window.
Solution:
Fix the end of the landing window at 3:33 after the start signal for this task only. All pilots will have at least until the watch shows 3:30 for their flight to land.

F3K.14

Present wording:
5.7.11.3. Task C (All up, last down, seconds):
All competitors of a group must launch their model gliders simultaneously, within 3 seconds of the organiser’s acoustic signal. The maximum measured flight time is 180 seconds. The official timekeeper takes the individual flight time of the competitor according to 5.7.6 and 5.7.7 from the release of the model glider and not from the acoustic signal. Launching a model glider more than 3 seconds after the acoustic signal will result in a zero score for the flight.
The number of launches (3 to 5) must be announced by the organiser before the contest begins.
The preparation time between attempts is limited to 60 seconds after the 30 seconds landing window. During this time the competitor may retrieve or change his model glider or do repairs. If a competitor’s model glider lands outside the start and landing field, the competitor may change his model glider without retrieving and bringing back the one which has landed outside the start and landing field. This is an explicit exception to 5.7.2.3 and only valid for this particular Task C.
The flight times of all attempts of each competitor will be added together and will be normalised to calculate the final score for this task. No working time is necessary.
Example: Competitor A: 45+50+35 s = 130 s = 812.50 points
Competitor B: 50+50+60 s = 160 s = 1000.00points
Competitor C: 30+80+40 s = 150 s = 937.50 points

Proposed wording:
5.7.11.3. Task C (All up, last down, seconds):
All competitors of a group must launch their model gliders simultaneously, within 3 seconds of the organiser’s acoustic signal. The maximum measured flight time is 180 seconds. The official timekeeper takes the individual flight time of the competitor according to 5.7.6 and 5.7.7 from the release of the model glider and not from the acoustic signal. Launching a model glider more than 3 seconds after the acoustic signal will result in a zero score for the flight.
The number of launches (3 to 5) must be announced by the organiser before the contest begins.
The preparation time between attempts is limited to 60 seconds after the end of the landing window. During this time the competitor may retrieve or change his model glider or do repairs. If a competitor’s model glider lands outside the start and landing field, the competitor may change his model glider without retrieving and bringing back the one which has landed outside the start and landing field. This is an explicit exception to 5.7.2.3 and only valid for this particular Task C.
The flight times of all attempts of each competitor will be added together and will be normalised to calculate the final score for this task. No working time is necessary.
Example: Competitor A: 45+50+35 s = 130 s = 812.50 points
Competitor B: 50+50+60 s = 160 s = 1000.00points
Competitor C: 30+80+40 s = 150 s = 937.50 points

Problem and solution:
Follows from 2012.6
If F3K.13 is used, F3K.14 is required.

F3K.15

Present wording:
5.7.1.2. Helper
Each competitor is allowed one helper who is not allowed to become physically involved in the flight, except for retrieving the airplane, if it has landed outside the start and landing field. The helper is the only person allowed to help the competitor on the start and landing field. Team managers are not allowed to stand inside the start and landing field.
After the end of the working time the competitor and the timekeeper must sign the results of the round. If the result is not signed by the competitor, the score for the round will be 0 points.
Proposed wording:
5.7.1.2. Helper
Each competitor is allowed one helper who is not allowed to become physically involved in the flight, except for retrieving the airplane, if it has landed outside the start and landing field.
The helper is the only person allowed to help the competitor when he is on the start and landing field.
After the end of the working time the competitor and the timekeeper must sign the results of the round. If the result is not signed by the competitor, the score for the round will be 0 points.

Changes follow from 2011.1 and 2012.8 Communications and role of Team Manager
Problem:
It is not clear in 5.7.1.2 that the Team Manager is not allowed to help the pilot – it just says he is not allowed inside the start and landing field. This might imply that there is some active role for him outside the box during the contest rounds.

Solution:
Remove the reference to the Team Manager from the rule – add emphasis to “The helper is the only person allowed to help the competitor when he is on the start and landing field. The TM can, of course, be the helper.

Problem:
It is possible to use various methods to supply information to the pilot/helper, from outside the box that would be of value in making tactical decisions. For example, knowing all the other pilot’s scores so far in the last flight task. This can be accomplished by shouting, possibly in coded language, signalling etc. and not just by a radio or similar device.

Solution:
Team race bans electronic communication between pilot/pit-man/outsiders. We could add details about a ban on communications from outside the box – but how to enforce it and what is the penalty? If I shout for another Team, are they penalised or is it my team? How about – “nobody allowed to speak or move outside the box during flying” – it can work at sports matches?
At the EC 2012 there was a lot of shouting when a Ukrainian pilot had to come back a long way from the trees after a 9:58 in Poker (or something like that). It was exciting – I was shouting too! Did he get any real help? – do you speak Ukranian? There was talk of a protest – perhaps that’s how this should be handled…..
NO ATTEMPT HAS BEEN MADE TO IMPLEMENT ANYTHING IN THE PROPOSED WORDING HERE – I CANNOT SEE A USEABLE WAY OF DOING IT. WE SHOULD PUT SOMETHING IN THE ORGANISERS GUIDE SO THAT ANNOUNCEMENTS CAN BE MADE TO REQUEST “NO COMMUNICATION” DURING THE CONTEST FLIGHTS.

F3K.16

Present wording:

5.7.2.2. Unintentional jettisoning
If the model glider suffers any unintentional jettisoning during the flight, then the flight shall be scored zero according to 5.3.1.7. If, during the landing, any unintentional jettisoning occurs (ref. 5.7.6.) after the first touch of the model glider with ground, any object or person, then the flight is valid.

Proposed wording:

5.7.2.2. Unintentional jettisoning
If the model glider suffers any unintentional jettisoning during the flight, then the flight shall be scored zero unless any unintentional jettisoning occurs as a result of a mid-air collision, when the flight is valid. If, during the landing, any unintentional jettisoning occurs after the first touch of the model glider with ground, any object or person, then the flight is valid

Problem:
Follows from 2011.3
Reference to 5.3.1.7. (an F3B rule) is incorrect and not required and reference to (5.7.6) is not required.
Solution:
Remove references
Also take the opportunity to insert clarification of mid-air collision situation because 5.7.4.2 states that there is no penalty for a mid-air.
5.7.4.2. Mid-air collision
In cases of mid-air collisions of two or more model gliders the competitors will not be granted re-flights nor will penalties be levied.

F3K.17

Present wording:

5.7.2.4. Retrieving of model glider
If the competitor lands the model glider outside the start and landing field during his preparation and working time, then it has to be retrieved back to the start and landing field either by the competitor or his helper. Other people, including the team manager, are not allowed to retrieve the model glider.
While retrieving the model, it is not permissible to fly it back to the start and landing field. Launching outside the start and landing field in this situation will be penalised with 100 points that will be deducted from the final score.

Proposed wording:

5.7.2.4. Retrieving of model glider
If the competitor lands the model glider outside the start and landing field during his preparation and working time, then it has to be retrieved back to the start and landing field either by the competitor or his helper. Other people are not allowed to retrieve the model glider.
While retrieving the model, it is not permissible to fly it back to the start and landing field. Launching outside the start and landing field in this situation will be penalised with 100 points that will be deducted from the final score.


Problem:
Follows from 2012.8
Mention of the team manager is not required and could cause confusion if he is the helper.
If he is not the helper he is included under ‘other people’.

Solution:
Delete, “, including the team manager,”

Comment:
Since no penalty is mentioned and the ‘other person’ may be a well-meaning on-looker who decides to touch the model, such incidents should be handled via a protest if required.

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LE MESLE Pierre Louis
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MessageSujet: Re: Etude pour l'evolution du reglement F3K   Lun 8 Oct 2012 - 13:41

Heureusement que tu as mis le PS :

Car rien qu' à la lecture, je zappe Crying or Very sad
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Ivan Moquereau
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MessageSujet: Re: Etude pour l'evolution du reglement F3K   Lun 8 Oct 2012 - 15:02

Bonjour

Il va falloir investir dans des casques !!!
Un bon point pour la sécurité, je soutiens.
Pour le reste, il faut relire un coup.

Ivan

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ydevriendt
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MessageSujet: Anglais ? hmmm ...    Lun 8 Oct 2012 - 18:51

Vu le niveau très pauvre en Anglais, je propose que la FAI utilise le Français comme langue première. Juste un ex : "not allowed" = prohibited.
Saidrikke : pour le calcul de l'équipe de France - Ivan n'est vraiment pas dans les cinq premiers ? affraid Pourtant il vole déjà pas trop mal pour son age Rolling Eyes
Commentaire perso : non pour le casque ! Au pire, venez tous en jeans si vous voulez vraiment être en uniforme (Américain), mais sans casque.

Yvesss
crane dur cheers


Dernière édition par ydevriendt le Lun 8 Oct 2012 - 19:46, édité 1 fois
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rudy
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MessageSujet: Re: Etude pour l'evolution du reglement F3K   Lun 8 Oct 2012 - 19:42

faut étudier calmement : je te réponds ce week end scratch

rudy flower
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ced_toulouse
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MessageSujet: Re: Etude pour l'evolution du reglement F3K   Mer 10 Oct 2012 - 16:17

en regardant le WC de F3F, j'ai repensé a un truc qui m'a toujours fait halluciné,et que je pense faire ajouter au global FAI: l'utilisation de l'anglais pour les concours a partir du moment ou un concurrent ne parle pas la langue locale.

Cedric,
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Ivan Moquereau
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MessageSujet: Re: Etude pour l'evolution du reglement F3K   Mer 10 Oct 2012 - 16:34

Cédric

Juste une remarque, tu ne fais pas ajouter, tu fais une demande auprès de la fédé qui transmet à la FAI et qui prend une décision lors de son AG d'Avril.
Par contre la remarques est plus que judicieuse.
Peut-être cela apparait-il dans dans le document d'organisation d'un championnat d'Europe ou du monde.
J'arrive pas à me rappeler du N° du document, mais je devrais retrouver cela.

Ivan

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MessageSujet: Re: Etude pour l'evolution du reglement F3K   Mer 10 Oct 2012 - 16:36

Ivan Moquereau a écrit:
Cédric

Juste une remarque, tu ne fais pas ajouter, tu fais une demande auprès de la fédé qui transmet à la FAI et qui prend une décision lors de son AG d'Avril.

Ivan

biensur!
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ydevriendt
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MessageSujet: Re: Etude pour l'evolution du reglement F3K   Mer 10 Oct 2012 - 20:51

ced_toulouse a écrit:
en regardant le WC de F3F, j'ai repensé a un truc qui m'a toujours fait halluciné,et que je pense faire ajouter au global FAI: l'utilisation de l'anglais pour les concours a partir du moment ou un concurrent ne parle pas la langue locale.

Cedric,

Ceci est un très bon message : en regardant le WC de F3F, j'ai repensé a un truc qui m'a toujours fait halluciné,et que je pense faire ajouter au global FAI. WC, truc, halluciné What a Face
Allez on se met tous à l'Onglet à l'échalotte : "my taylor is rich" whoaa!!!! bounce Vive le truc hallucinant au WC global FAI Sleep

Yvesss
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MessageSujet: Re: Etude pour l'evolution du reglement F3K   Sam 13 Oct 2012 - 10:27

salut lol!

aprés lecture, cela ne change pas grand chose et essaie d'eclaircir les points qui ont causés des réclamations. (pas toujours élégament d'ailleurs) confused

Je ne suis pas fana pour multiplier les pénalités et avec des taux varialbles confused

Bof aussi pour le casque et surtout je trouve dommage de scotcher les pilotes dans la zone de lancer rattrapés. Suspect

rudy flower
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BenjaminB
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MessageSujet: Re: Etude pour l'evolution du reglement F3K   Lun 15 Oct 2012 - 12:00


moi aussi je trouve cela dommage de ne pas pouvoir se deplacer pour suivre un peu son planeur.
Va t on finir par faire comme dans un concours en Asie, où chaque pilote avait un carré de 15x15 (ou pourquoi pas 30x30) dans la zone de lancé , tiré au sort , et ne pouvait pas en bouger.... ( plus besoin de casque non plus du coup!!!)

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